E43: Cultivating Young Writers and Readers with Stewart O. Dunn

Shelley:
Hello everyone, welcome to Raising Thinkers. I'm Shelley and I'm so glad that you're here with us today. Today we have a very special podcast and we have a guest with us. So we'd like to welcome Stuart Dunn to our podcast today. She brings with her a wealth of experience as an educator, both within the US and abroad, as an academic coordinator and as a self-published author of five children's books, such as Nico's New Necklace, Daisy's Busy Day, The Breath Book, and A World of Spots, which is now available in English and Spanish. She also helps others interested in publishing their own works as well. So hello to you, Stuart, and welcome. We're so happy to have you here with us today on the Raising Thinkers podcast.

Stewart:
Hi Shelley, thank you so much for having me. I think it's super important that these types of communities exist like Raising Thinkers. While you know, of course the ultimate goal is to help the little ones, but to be able to help the little ones, we have to first help the big ones take tools and help the little ones.

Shelley:
Absolutely. So Stewart, tell us a little bit about your background, your journey, and how have you ended up as an author?

Stewart:
Well, I am originally from Louisville, Kentucky, I studied communication and then received my bachelor's in social work as well. Helping others was always the end goal, but kind of finding that path into how I did that or what that looked like was I think a more of a roundabout way than direct. I was always involved first starting as a summer job and then moving into something more permanent. Working in the school system in the US. I had the wonderful advantage of working at the school that I went to, which kept my world small in what was existing in the world of education. And that really blew the door open when I moved abroad to Panama. And I started working at an elementary school in Panama as an English teacher, first in sixth grade, then following third, ending in first before I transferred to the academic English coordinator for elementary and being able to enter a completely different world of education and really having to work on my own mindset that there is no right or wrong there's just different and the ultimate goal everywhere is to be able to best reach the students and their needs really kept me focused and really helped me learn to be more flexible in that regard.

When I moved to Panama in 2014 after graduating from the University of Louisville. I continued my studies and received my master's from Florida State University in International Affairs while maintaining my work at the school and I never let that go until I moved to the interior of the country. When I made that transition I was unable to physically work in the school that I adored so much so I sort of shifted to on the online platform. While I was working at the school though, it got exhausting because we had so much flexibility that we were responsible for finding our resources or our stories that we wanted to use inside the classroom. And a lot of times I really had to bend the lesson plan based on what existed already. And I knew my students' reading levels. I knew their interests. And so in science class, they were obsessed with reduce, reuse, recycle. And I thought, there's no story that really captures what I want them to capture.

And I had a student of mine, his name was Nico, and he said, well, why don't you write this story? And actually in my first story, Nico's New Necklace, the character name is named after him. So after that, once I realized that I could, I kept going. There was no stopping me. Because the biggest barrier was thinking that I don't have X, Y, Z. I don't have enough knowledge. I don't have enough connections. I don't have enough financial ability to be able to do this. So I really went and you know nose to the ground focused doing all the research to see the only difference between me and other self publishers is that they did it and I haven't yet and Once I did and I saw that it was possible then I really started to hone my skills with each passing one because the focus is on publication not perfection if every writer if every publisher waited until something was perfect our bookshelves would be empty so after the fourth one and having it both in Spanish and English, so having five different books out there, I decided, hey, there's a lot of confusion over the self-publishing world, a lot of doubt and questioning, but tons of people full of amazing ideas who want to do it, but are facing the same barriers I did in the beginning. So I created sort of a program to help first-time writers write and self-publish their children's books. And that has redirected me to focus on that but has allowed me to stay in the early childhood education realm by doing cuenta cuentos or story times in schools in both the US and Panama and share my stories and the lessons that they bring through those presentations.

Shelley:
And I know I've had the privilege of being a part of some of those cuenta cuentos and times with kids in schools. And it's amazing to see you in action with them and just to have an actual author right there reading their stories and bringing them to life to children is amazing. And I love how your journey has just changed over time. And you're really such an example to a lot of people, I think, and especially to the students that you interact with, whether it's in those story times or whether it's your own students, like what a privilege for that child, who is now probably grown up a little bit more to know that there's a book that was inspired essentially by him. I really love that. So thinking about parents, since that's our main audience, what are some different strategies or tools that you might encourage for developing curiosity or critical thinking in children and particularly for young writers?

Stewart:
One of the first things I want to emphasize is that reading and writing should always be a privilege and it should be a reward and it should also be a universal given that they have access to that so that's the first thing I always want to make sure that I discuss is when parents come to me and say my child hates to read. You know I say well when you have offered that opportunity to them how have you framed it? You know do they see you reading? Do they see you enjoying that? Do you allow them to have opportunities? Do you allow accessibility to reading and writing? Do they have the tools to be able to do that? If they want to read a book well how many books do you have in the house? Do you just have one that they are not interested in or one that they've read three times?

So you have to make sure that you are providing that buffet and you make sure that you're you're kind of feeding that interest So some of the strategies to help encourage curiosity critical thinking and and young ones Include, know asking open-ended questions if you've read a short story a long story, whatever it is, you know ask What do you think the main character could have done differently? Allowing them to input their creative ideas into the story that they just read to you're gonna get a lot more engagement instead of did you like the book? Yes. Why it was good. So if you ask specifics you will get specifics In court encourage what if thinking so if you take a familiar story ask them to add their own twist But again help with prompts because sometimes tha could be a barrier for lot of kids is I don't know where to start. I don't know what you want from me, right? So if you give them the building blocks, then they'll build. So what if dragons were scared of humans? What do you think would happen? Or the day the crayons quit, say, hey, if your crayons quit, let's write one letter from one of your crayons. Which color do you use the most? And what do you think they would have to say to you in that letter? Use visual prompts. if you have, they exist, there's tons that exist and they're beautiful.

Take a wordless picture book or just one unusual illustration and have them put a story to it. Even if they start, and it depends on the level, if they're not capable of writing yet, ask them and have them storytell back to you and either you could dictate or you could do a voice recording or just start there. But if they're able to write, know, have them write their own story to that picture book.

And also writing prompts, like I mentioned before, make it easy for them to grow. If you give a writing prompt, then you're going to avoid the whole, don't know what to do, I don't know where to start, I don't have any ideas. So if you say, opened the box and I couldn't believe what was inside. Give them a time limit of five minutes, or allow them to write five sentences and then illustrate whatever crazy idea they came up with. There's different ways to add fun to it to encourage them to grow. And then some tools too to help encourage curiosity and critical thinking. A creative journal, either you can make one, have them identify the writing prompts that really interest them and fill a notebook with those on each page.

I know they sell a ton of variations of these, like Wreck This Journal, where kids have freedom to be messy in their writing and reading journey, because learning is messy. We don't expect perfection from ourselves. We shouldn't expect it from little ones. So allow them to be messy. And it's a safe space where not only is it allowed, it's actually invited. And interactive writing apps. So if you want to go more digital, there's Toontastic, there's Book Creator, where they can see that they can engage in technology and their creative side and it come to life in real time while they're doing it. They act you know like it's the coolest video game out there in that moment or whatever they get super hyped to be able to show you that and use technology in that way.

Shelley:
Thank you so much for those ideas. Those are fantastic. the technology element as well and how technology can kind of support that creative thinking and development of ideas And I think that is a really good way to get kids involved in that because they are a more digital generation than ours was or is. And that's something that's important that we can kind of reach out to them where they're at. But at the same time, I love the ideas that are not technologically related, that just sitting down with your child, reading the book with them and talking with them, asking them questions. Maybe you haven't had time to sit and read the book with them, but you can ask those open-ended questions like you were talking about, which is important because you're exactly correct. It's just like the kid who gets in the car after the school day and you say, how was your day? Fine. And you got to ask the right kinds of questions to get details and to get that higher level thinking out of them and to get them to process their ideas.

And also what you mentioned at the start about not making writing or reading a punishment. I just want to reiterate that because that's so true. We want learning to be something they enjoy and that they engage in because it's something that's fun and exciting and it should never be a punishment. 100 % agree with that. So thank you for sharing that wisdom and all those ideas. thinking about reading and writing and how they're interconnected.

How might parents promote one or maybe the other one to strengthen the other?

Stewart:
Absolutely. So. I always like reading and writing or peanut butter and jelly, but I was like, maybe people can't that and it's just more of a me thing, but I absolutely see them as interconnected and you cannot have one without the other. So if one is lacking, the other, you will see some deficiencies at some point as well. So it's important to maintain sort of this equilibrium or leveled investigation, intervention, moving forward to make sure that they're able to keep advancing in the one that they are naturally going to take to. Because I love writing and reading, but there's always, and it comes in waves, I love one more than the other at certain times in my life.

But I like to think of it that reading gives children the puzzle pieces and writing and discussion is where they're able to put those puzzle pieces together and make more of a fuller picture. So reading will help a child build vocabulary and their own voice. It'll help them or give them opportunity to observe different sentence structures and rhythm and all of that is going to help them shape their writing. And the writing is then going to deepen their comprehension and critical thinking skills.

So they're able to better express themselves. The more they're able to better express themselves, the deeper they can go in the readings that they read after that. So it's this continuous circle of awesomeness, of greatness. So we want to make sure that we're fostering both so it can continue to flourish. So some ideas to kind of strengthen writing through reading or vice versa is to read aloud and talk about the story. Ask them again questions about it. Like how would you have ended that story? Not just did you like it? How would you have ended it? What would you have changed about that story?

Point out interesting words or sentences. Like, hey, in this part we felt really nervous or this was really spooky. Why do you think this was really spooky? It wasn't the way that I was just saying it because the way that I say it, I chose the way I said it based on what was written there. So maybe they say, well, we see the ellipsis dot dot dot. And that means there's suspension or there's like a surprise coming. Or this particular word and it's a word that they haven't been introduced to yet but the way that you said it helps them identify that this is a word that maybe would identify a feeling such as scared or nervous so they can build their vocabulary that way too and dissect the reading to help understand their comprehension. Write a letter to a character or rewrite a scene with a different point of view.

Then another one which I love this idea, start a family journal. So mom and dad are writing in a way that their vocabulary is a little bit more advanced than the child. But there's also still words that the child recognizes. And it can be this interaction of like a conversation. So if they don't have a cell phone yet, or you want to wait for them to have a cell phone, it can kind of be like texting back and forth type thing. Or these little secret messages that you have within your family and like a safe space where they can share things that maybe they don't feel comfortable sharing out loud at that moment or whatever kind of prompt you give them or guidance you give them for that. Or you can do a story exchange with a friend or a sibling. So they write one page, one scene, X amount of sentences, and they hand it off to whoever their exchange partner is who then adds to that story. So you're building on the creativity and ideas of somebody else too.

Shelley:
Those are such good ideas. I love it. It reminds me of in my own classroom when I taught in third grade we used to have like a never-ending story and I had one of those little photo books but with note cards in it I would start the story and then anybody whenever they wanted to could read what was written already and then add on to it or if you're kind of a circle time and I guess you could do this around like family dinner as well it's not written but just verbally like start the story and then it continues around and everybody builds on to it. Those sorts of things are so fun.

And those are just really good ideas of the types of questions you could ask of just that family journal. I love it. Like thinking about how technology has influenced so much of their lives and the idea of having something that's not tech based as well, where you can share that space and thoughts and ideas and kind of converse with each other in kind of a special way. I like that a lot. So thank you for those.

So speaking of technology, thinking about artificial intelligence and how much AI is influencing the world and definitely education as well, how necessary do you think it is to actually teach our children how to write if they could just share their ideas with a device who will then spit out a story for them?

Stewart:
This is such a hot topic right now in the world of education, also in the world of writing and publishing because the literary world has become inundated with mediocre at best, usually poor quality stories. And I see these things and I say like, we, our children deserve better. We deserve better. How are we supposed to work with this? It's not okay. It's not developing high quality products. And in the reading and or in the writing and publishing world it's the adults that are making these mistakes who are using AI to be editors, to be story generators, and even with the illustrations. Then you have a character that has you know it's a human but then you see three feet creeping in the background or you know these things that the attention to detail that our young readers deserve. A lot of that is being lost to AI because AI isn't as advanced as we think it is.

So AI is a mimicker. It takes the ideas. It also scrapes the ideas. So there's a lot of intellectual stealing that's going on, which is unfortunate and that's a whole other part of it. But I like to think of it as a calculator. Our calculators, when they came along on our cell phones or just our normal calculators, I was waiting for math class to finish in school. Like, okay, they're going to finally announce that there is no math classes because we have our calculators. We don't need it. And unfortunately, but fortunately, that never happened.

And so I like to think that AI is going to be like the calculator where it can help but you have to understand the system. You have to know how to work it. For example, AI relies on good prompts. So just because it exists, if you ask one way and change one word in that prompt, you're going to get a completely different answer. So to know how to drive the machine, you have to know what to feed it to get the kind of answer that you want. you have to use, you have to learn to use it effectively. And you're not going to be replaced by it if you know how to kind of tame the beast.

Also, writing teaches thinking. Like it's how we solve problems. It helps us clarify our thoughts and organize information. It trains our logic, our empathy, our creativity. I don't see AI being able to replace that. And I think if we genuinely think about it, AI is a machine, is robotic, is not human-based or human-thinking. I know you working in education. I'm sure have different experiences because the older children get when it comes to doing assignments or projects in schools.

Having to find ways to make sure that kids are being creative and not using AI. And one thing I was reading the other day was, and it's so true because I see this when I use it as well or when I've interacted with other people who have used it, AI loves the dash. And most natural writing, we do not, because I was reading about how a teacher was like, this is fine. I see this idea. Add, you know, add one more sentence to this for me, please. Or circling a word that came out of the prompt and was like, explain what this word means to me. Or why did you use am dash here? Or even asking them, draw a m dash. What is a m dash? They have no idea. So the dash is like one thing that gets a lot of people. But I see it in stories now in children's books. And there's a time and a place for it and a frequency to use it. And when you see it inundating your story. You're like, okay, I think AI had a hand in this. Also storytelling is human currency. It's how we connect and inspire and lead in all aspects of our life and when I think of when I was thinking about AI and writing I was like

How does it change our messages and even our personalities? And Shelley, you and I both have experienced moving abroad to another country where there's another language used. I don't know about you, but when I speak in Spanish, which is not my native language, I know I'm not communicating the way 100 % that I want to communicate. It's not getting my message across. I have to be creative in my delivery, but I lose that personal touch or I lose what I feel is like my personality where I always joke, I'm like, I'm funny in English, I swear I am. I just can't, I can't get it across in Spanish yet. And even if we look at the generation who is so tech savvy now, some of the downfalls is this lack of communication, this face-to-face communication, or even in long writing versus short writing, where we're using emojis to replace emotions.

Or we're allowing the algorithm to replace authenticity. And it's creating this awkwardness because, like I said, writing and communication is human currency and it's what our entire species is based on and really sets us apart. So when we keep handing that power off to something like AI, we're going to see short term and long term effects to that. So it's about taming the beast and using it for us, but knowing what its limitations is as well and respecting that.

Shelley:
Those are really, really good insights and great wisdom that you have there. It reminds me of a book that I read over the summer last year for my work. It's called Co-Intelligence by Ethan Mollick. And he talks about keeping the human in the loop. He admits he's been working with AI and testing it and use it some with his own university level students. He explains how he used AI to partner with him in writing certain things. But it's that you've got to keep the human in the loop or else you lose that kind of human currency. So yes, we can use a technological device, we can use a calculator to help us solve problems, but we still need to drive the machine. It's like what you were talking about in the writing that actually teaches thinking is so key.

As we've been wrestling with it, being within a school still and looking at how it's transforming different elements of education, I think one of the things that I've landed at is that you've got to teach the kids how to be able to think and to critically problem solve first before they can decide how to use this tool. We don't typically give students calculators really until around middle school, sometimes high school, right? So why would we put, I would say, more powerful device in their hands and tell them, "You can do whatever you want with this."

So the other thing I was thinking about as you were speaking was just how I've experimented with it a little bit myself. I was writing a children's story just about math since I'm a math coach right now. It was for first graders and was trying to get them to think about how they could write a story about using addition and subtraction as different characters and those sorts of things. Like a creative writing exercise to internalize and then output some ideas about math that they had understood in terms of concepts. And so I said, well, AI, here's my prompt. You kind of figure it out from there. Overall, it was fine, but as I continued to read through it and edit it myself, I was like, wait, you're saying something that's totally inaccurate mathematically here! If I had just taken it and thrown it out there without reviewing it before giving it to them, I would have then caused confusion for students versus bringing an opportunity.

So I think it's just coming back to it's another tool that we can use, but we need to understand how to think and how to process and to output information for ourselves. And then you can use it, but realize you're still in charge of it.

Stewart:
It's just making sure that we maintain this human touch which is very noticeable. There's a lot of ways we don't even, we can't even pinpoint what it is exactly is missing when we read a piece that has been written by AI, but you feel it and humans are not separate from emotion.

Shelley:
I also think about just how different things that we read. At the end, are you left feeling like that was a good use of your time? Did you end that book feeling edified or challenged or more enlightened or have a greater understanding of the world around you? And I think sometimes there's some pieces that are written that I'm like.... And it could be the same with movies. I'm like, I don't know if I really should have spent two hours watching that. So if we're looking and reading some of these lower quality pieces that don't have that human element and touch to them that makes us so unique, then we're to be wasting our time when we could have read something so much deeper, so much better.

Stewart:
I absolutely agree with you.

Shelley:
On another topic, I know I've had students before who have been like, "I just don't know what to write." They sit there, they stare at the blank paper, and I'm sure there's parents out there who want to encourage their children to write or to do different things. And they're like, what can I do? My kid hates writing. They don't know what to do. They just sit there. What would you encourage them to do?

Stewart:
I would first try to investigate the root of that hatred or that disdain maybe towards the task. Is it feeling that it's a punishment? Because not only are the parents responsible for making sure that reading and writing is not treated as a punishment, but how we handle it in the school system as well. Making sure that we reach children where they're at. And it's about having this just right level. So we have experienced teaching ESL learners. The stories that we present to them are a bit different than when we are in the US system or working with English native readers or writers. And so we have to be aware that if you decrease maybe the vocabulary level or sentence structure variation, we have to make sure that the subject matter is now not, you know, Barney. But the level of the child, the age of the child is not at Barney appreciation level.

So options exist, you have to make sure that you find this just right level of challenge versus where they feel comfortable, like comfort versus challenge, right? And making sure that your percentage is there. And a lot of times too in the school, teachers have standards to meet, have their own assessments to accomplish. And so sometimes unfortunately in that mix, in that race, children are pushed and punished with reading and writing when the ultimate goal is to maintain that fun and interest. So I would encourage parents to offer options.

Take them to the library. Libraries are not dead. Libraries are amazing places that now not, I mean, they don't just offer events but 99 % of the time it's free they're free right the books are free so it's not a matter of I can't keep buying the books that they're not going to read. Well, you don't have to take them to a library, right? And in these libraries, too, when you get your library card, it is a portal to amazing opportunities. I was at one when I was back home in March and it has a green screen room. So it also offers different technology things, too. They have these different classes and courses that, again, are free to the community. So take advantage of the resources you have. Don't let finances be a barrier to you. If your child is interested or glued to an iPad, you know, you're past trying to get them to break that addiction, then use it for you. Download those apps like Toontastic or Book Creator. Download Kindle or the online version of the library where they can access and download books, read them on their Kindle, meet them where they're at.

If you have a child who's super interested in soccer, stop pushing a history book on them. Push the history of soccer. So they're learning in disguise and it's kind of about trickery at this point, but it's for the benefit of the child and make it accessible. If you want them to read and write, have a variety of writing utensils, have notebooks available, big post-its, little post-its, allow them to be creative at how they express themselves instead of pushing one particular way and make it fun. Let them see you enjoying it as well. Let them recognize the use of it in their day-to-day lives. Like, okay, we're gonna go out to eat. Let's read the menu. What do you think I should order? And they have to read it to you first, the options. They're still reading. Reading is not strictly a book with a cover, a hardcover, and a story arc. They can read everywhere they go to. Like, oh my goodness, my Waze is not working. I'm gonna need your help. We're on the highway. What does that sign say? Or what does that represent? Or what exit is this? Add some fun tension to it or reading is everywhere. It doesn't have to be restricted to story time at home.

Shelley:
That's so true. I remember as well as when I was in the classroom over the weekends, my homework was just read and they were like, "Is it read for 20 minutes like it normally was like during the regular weeknights?" I said just read you decide you can read a lot you can read a little but It could be you're just reading road sides Like I don't care what you're reading. Just make sure you're reading because I wanted them to recognize that reading is a part of their life. It's everywhere and it's something that they need right?

And I love how you're talking about to just really differentiating for your own child. We talk about in education, you can differentiate in terms of content, process, product, but you're saying that essentially, you're saying give them different materials, give them a different way that they can express themselves, give them a different choice of, let's not read about history, but the history of soccer, right? So think about what really piques your child's interest. And as a parent, you know your child really well. So think about what you do know about them and how you can engage them and find that kind of just right fit, whether it's in reading or in writing.

I think about too, what you mentioned about using different technological aspects and okay there's the green screen at the library and you could have them produce their own little video or whatever show and it doesn't have to be that they're writing per se but they're producing a story they're producing some sort of reflection or sharing their thoughts in some form or fashion. I remember I used to record on my tape recorder at home like that shows my age, but now we have text-to-speech. Now we have all these apps where they can still be storytellers and that allows them to really be writing in a way. They're not writing physically and that's important as well. But if we're just trying to get them to start to share their ideas, there's so many ways that we can do that.

And yes, you also mentioned libraries are not dead. Absolutely. I was just there with my kids yesterday. We can check out 50 books at a time and we hit our limit. Like we already had some at the house, but I was like, we had a few more to check out and we can't check out anymore.

Stewart:
I love it. What a great problem to have reaching your limit. Now that summer is coming up in the US too, most libraries offer these summer sort of projects or programs or initiatives where if you read X books, I remember doing it, you would get a bag full of these goodies or all of these rewards. Again, putting reward instead of punishment back into reading. And it varies for different age levels. Like you mentioned, if you have technology or you're at that level where they're using technology, use it. If they're not even at the level yet where they're forming words or they're forming one syllable words, there's many different ways you can help them practice their writing in the summertime, using chalk outside, or giving them a sponge and they have to write a word using water on the concrete before it dries out. How fast can they write a word, right? If they're at the beach writing it with a stick in the sand before the wave takes it away, how many letters can you write? Play-doh.

It's a bit intimidating sometimes because as educators, we kind of have those creative ideas in us or we're looking for those ways. And so it is going to be a little bit of work on the forefront, on the beginning of it for parents to break the mold of what we have been trained to think about this ourselves, our own experiences, because there's a lot of parents too who say like, I hate to read myself. And it's such a shame, but they don't want their children to follow in their footsteps. But figuring out where to start can be really intimidating for them too. So, you know, it's okay to talk to the teacher and ask for ideas. It's okay to ask the librarian for book suggestions. That's what we're here for. I love those questions.

Shelley:
Yes. Anytime a parent asks me for ideas or suggestions, I'm like, I'm more than happy to help. Like, if I could, I would just send suggestions to every parent of every child I know, but then I would never sleep. So, you know, the ones who take the initiative and ask, I go above and beyond to help, for sure. So just kind of to wrap up. What would be one or two of your top tips for thinking about how to just foster a love of writing for parents and their own children?

Stewart:
Make it fun. Make it fun and do it with them. There is no right or wrong. If they're producing letters or they're talking about an idea that they have in whatever way that that comes to life for the child. Make space. Clear the path so they can continue down that road for as long as they're interested. So if it's this intense soccer obsession for five months, foster it. And then one day they wake up and they're say, Hey, I just learned about this person. And they're obsessed with Shaquille O'Neal. Everything you can like redirect and stay flexible in the fun.

Shelley Love De Feliu (34:02)
That's really good too, because I know my thought goes to my toddlers who for weeks on end will love to eat like the clementines or the mandarinas, right? And then the next day they wake up and they're like, they don't want anything to do with it. I'm like, you've loved these. I just bought two bags on a buy one, get one free, you know. Eat more. but it's the same thing with their interests and we can't kind of keep beating in one direction and expect for them to stay with us. interests change, and they're young, and they're developing, and then they see something else that interests them. And okay, let's go with that. Let go, be flexible and that's hard for parents. So I love that. Those are really, really good suggestions, along with all these other strategies and suggestions that you've given us all throughout this episode. So thank you so, so much.

If parents want to find out more about you or if they're like, I have a young writer in my house, I want to be able to help them publish their own book or they want to find some of your literature to purchase and work with with their own children, where can they find more about you?

Stewart:
So first of all, I've had parents be like, can I please send you a draft of my child's story? They want, you know, a little bit of review or feedback. I never say no to those. Or if kids want to share something with me that they have created. When I do some of these story times, people say like, how does it feel to be a famous author? And I'm like, well, I'll let you know when that happens. But I mean, just the way that they see you, just as they do as looking at their parents and their teachers as these authority figures. One, it's important that they see you as human. What I mean in that is that you stay curious, that you talk about errors and mistakes and interests changing in your own personal life too. So they can see that they're allowed to make mistakes, they're allowed to change their ideas. But also I love when parents and children write to me and some of them ask for help with publishing and I'm like publishing doesn't have to be publishing the way that we see it. They see their book on a shelf per se. Maybe they just want to see their book on their shelf. So take it to a Kinko's, if Kinko's still exists, or a UPS store and laminate it. Put the little binding on it. It's an investment that you will get back tenfold for them to be able to hold a physical copy of their own book. Maybe they gift it if they wrote this story about one of their friends. It could be a birthday present for a friend or a Christmas gift for grandma. There's no price tag on things like that.

But for those who are interested in and contacting me of course I'm on social media... Instagram or Facebook at Stuart O. Dunn and I also have my website https://www.stewartodunn.com where I also have a contact form which goes directly to my email. I'm very attentive to this because anytime I see that there's a spark, I want to jump on that as quickly as possible to make sure that it's not watered out or you know that it remains there because it's special and we need to make sure that we are feeding that spark.

Shelley:
That's amazing. Thank you so much. This has been an incredible episode and I hope that you have many people who reach out to you and want to know more from your expertise because you're amazing and I'm so grateful for your time as I know our audiences as well. So thank you and thank you to everyone for listening to another episode of Raising Thinkers and keep an ear out for future guests as well. Have a great day everyone!

Interested in learning more about Stewart's work, consulting with her on how to publish your own book, or wanting to get some of her literature? Check out her website.

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